Interview by Ian Roth. Photography by Alex Sanchez
I: Tell us about the last year.
T: I got a contract in December to fight Minowaman. He’s a Pride fighter, a Japanese hero. He’s fought Rampage Jackson, Wanderlei Silva, Bob Sapp, Mark Hunt…. I’m a big fan of his. I knew when I got the offer that they were looking at me as an old man… as an easy fight for Minowaman because they didn’t want him to lose in Gifu, his hometown.
I: What made you choose a fight like this?
T: I had something to prove… not to other people… but to myself. I wanted to overcome my fear. I knew I could either let him beat me really quick or take it seriously, train for 5 months, get in the best shape of my life, and beat this guy. I didn’t have my spiritual being under control before I fought last time, so at the beginning of the year I worked on the inner, spiritual side of myself. That created the physical strength. I started to become a machine by March and after that I didn’t care who I was gonna fight. Minowaman… anybody. I had already physically and spiritually changed. I was dangerous.
I: You didn’t get to fight Minowaman. Who did you fight?
T: After Minowaman got injured, I had to fight a very famous Japanese Judo champion. They call him Python and he was 130 kilos (I’m 89). They switched on me 10 days before the fight. I was very upset about it. It’s not Minowaman’s fault. Anybody can get hurt. I don’t think he chickened out on me. I don’t think he ran from me. That guy’s a predator. He’s not playing. He ain’t afraid of nobody. He’s a good man. I just think it was timing, it was destiny, it was luck. They apologized to me about the contract, asked if I could fight a super-heavyweight, and threw in the title belt. So I took the match and I beat the guy. They underestimated me.
I: What was the lead up to the fight like?
T: I trained 4 hours a day, 6 days a week, changed my diet, took tranquilizers to help me sleep… and prayed to God everyday to help me beat Minowaman. He changed the road but also helped me to have the courage and the strength… to have no fear. That was the thing. I had no fear. If you have no fear, if you can get over that, not worrying about dying in the ring, you’re a vicious machine. You’re a predator. Fear is man’s worst enemy.
I: What was the hardest part of the whole experience?
T: The pain. I had constant pain, waking up with swollen feet, swollen hands, low kick damage and shin damage, back pain and neck pain from getting choked and submitted, injured knees and a broken hand that I had to keep punching with. It really made me tired, wore me down mentally. I had to work at night with this damage. I’d finish training and have to stand on my feet for another 5 hours. But, that was part of the spiritual training. The spiritual training heals the body. Always pray and believe in yourself and that the injury will heal. Stay positive.
I: The cage door shuts and you’re standing across from a 130 kilo monster who wants to kill you. What’s going through your head?
T: I saw in his face that he was more scared of me. He was worried about my strikes. I was in such great physical shape… such great shape mentally and spiritually… I had already won the fight before I got in the cage. I knew it. I could see it in his face and movements. I saw his fear. I wasn’t scared of him pressuring me. What scared me the most were the customers. There were some pretty scary customers there… a lot of action going on. I think I was also afraid of… being kind in the cage. I’m a kind person but when I got in that cage, no matter how tired he was, how he felt, whether he was hurt, I would not be kind. I was kind the last time I fought. I’ll never be kind again when I fight in the cage or the ring. That’s why he was afraid and I wasn’t. Don’t be kind, ever, in the cage.
I: You won this fight and you have a belt. What’s different now?
T: Nothing. Nothing has changed. I won this belt. I won that fight. I could lose a fight tomorrow. I’m nobody different. I’m not stronger. I’m no special person. I got lucky that day. I trained hard and it worked out well. You set your mind, you believe in yourself, you never give up, and you have that courage. My students and friends call me a champion. Everyone’s a champion. I did a good job. I did my best. I got the belt. It’s great. Didn’t change nothing.
I: What have you learned from or how has this experience changed you?
T: I’m not afraid of anyone anymore. I have the courage now. I’ve done it. I got in to a cage, with leather gloves and the pressure from the Japanese organization and the heat and the time. Tick tock tick tock. One month left, three weeks left…. You got customers screaming, cameras, pressure. There are guys pissing blood backstage from getting beaten so badly… you go to the toilet and it’s covered in blood. You take a shower watch your own blood run down the drain. It gave me a gift… that no one can say I’m not a professional. That was the main thing I wanted… to go through that barrier. I taught class today, and I’m stricter now. Other trainers who don’t have my experience question me or say it’s too much. I don’t want to hear complaints. I did it. I called out the strongest Japanese fighter. I did the training and fought the fight. The point I want to make is, if you’re 48 or 58 or 68 or whatever… don’t let your age be a problem. You can change your body, your mind, your spirit. If you start slowly, anybody can become incredibly strong at any age. Even someone just starting can do it if they dedicate themselves to mental, physical, and spiritual good health. They can change their lives. I just wanted to show everyone… you need to be an example for others, for your kids. The world should think more… not just about entertainment with games and iphones and computers and all that stuff… but more the old physical style. Remember your grandparents and how they lived their lives. That changed me. I look at how my grandfather fought in the wars, how my grandmother lived and how she taught me and how my mother taught me. That’s what made me strong. My family helped me out a lot… looking at how hard their lives were. It humbled me a lot.
I: What makes you a fighter?
T: I think it was the way I was brought up. I saw so many scary people in my life. Being pressured by gangs and dangerous people as a child, it gave me a fear. I didn’t want to be put in the corner by some of the dogs who put me there. Martial arts softened that fear and allowed me to fight back and become stronger. I’m sure some fighters are just strong guys, but I think most of them have had a hard time in the past.
I: Before you said that the biggest thing about this recent fight was that you didn’t have fear anymore. Does that mean you’ve overcome your need to be a fighter?
T: Yeah… I just… inside I don’t need the challenge anymore. It doesn’t scare me. I don’t need to prove anything anymore. I challenged Minowaman, I knocked out their player, I took the belt. What’s my next step? I need to prove something in the UFC… at 48 years old? I’m not into that. I have my own life… my own career. I have a good company, I make my own money, and I work hard for it. I think that’s enough for now.
I: Do you think that the desire or will to fight will ever leave you?
T: To protect myself or my family… to keep training in the martial arts… I will do that no matter what. Martial art humbles the spirit. It soothes the soul. It caresses my heart. It’s a beautiful thing. You don’t have to hurt people. The energy that it gives you… just doing kata or tai chi… it’s a great tool to heal yourself. I think everybody should be doing it. I’ll be training when I’m an old man. I’ll die still doing martial arts. But the will to fight in the ring will leave me. The passion to be someone special… to get in there and smash on people or say I beat this guy or hear people screaming my name you know… that will leave me. I don’t even have that anymore now. What I got that day, winning the belt… I was tremendously lucky that God gave me that chance. Out of thousands of people, how many have that chance. I got that chance. I was loved by everyone. They threw me in the air. They gave me their love and support. I don’t want to be selfish and ask for it again. I’m satisfied… even if I don’t ever fight again.
I: So where do you go from here?
T: I’m gonna put a gym together. I learned what goes into 3 rounds… the kind of physical training these guys go through. There’s so much more than technique. That’s what I want to focus on… training others. I’ve got some great people helping me change my program and teaching me. I’m like a thief taking all kinds of ideas from everybody. Taking the good and leaving the rest. I have to say one thing. It’s really important to me to put this in to the interview. My friends and my trainers and my fans… they made me so strong in the cage. They gave me the ability and the sense and the strength to believe in my self. They beat on me and trained me for ten years now and gave me their techniques and I’m still learning. So I have to thank them for giving me what I have now. They gave me all of it. They helped me out. They’re good people.
I: I’m sure they’re very proud of you. Thanks for talking to us and congratulations.
